Leaders square off in last major debate By: Danielle Da Silva and Carol Sanders Posted: 11:09 PM CDT Thursday, Sep. 21, 2023 Last Modified: 9:46 AM CDT Friday, Sep. 22, 2023 Updates

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Beneath bright studio lights and appealing directly to Manitobans via a row of cameras, the province’s main political leaders staked their claim for the premier’s office during a live, hour-long televised debate on Thursday evening.

It was the last major match-up for the three party leaders ahead of the Oct. 3 provincial election. The debate was moderated by Probe Research’s Mary Agnes Welch and hosted by broadcast journalists Ian Froese, Jeff Keele and Marney Blunt.

The hour-long affair saw Premier Heather Stefanson fending off attacks over the state of health care from New Democrat Leader Wab Kinew, who was targeted for being untrustworthy by both the Progressive Conservative leader and Manitoba Liberal Leader Dougald Lamont.

Here’s a rundown of how each leader performed at the debate.

Heather Stefanson

What she needed to do:

“She needs to work really hard to ensure that she’s having a direct conversation with Manitobans,” said campaign manager Marni Larkin. “I think ensuring that Manitobans know the facts and not the fictional tales that have been woven by the opposition — I think that’s critical to us tonight.”

Stefanson, whom polls show is the least popular among the three leaders on the debate stage and the least popular premier in Canada, has been keeping a low profile throughout the campaign. Rather than “hog the spotlight” she’s shared the stage with other PC candidates to highlight their bench strength, Larkin said.

Stefanson needs to show her team is the solid choice and convince voters that the opposition is not ready to govern.

Stefanson must showcase the PCs as strong fiscal stewards while arguing the other parties’ spending plans are out of control.

“That’s scary to Manitobans. But I don’t know that they’re all hearing that,” said Larkin. “So it’s really important to us that she get that message out tonight.”

What she accomplished:

The PC leader kept Kinew out of the spotlight by directing criticisms through Lamont. In one example, Stefanson called into question Kinew’s honesty when he claimed a Winnipeg doctor and former Liberal MP Doug Eyolfson endorsed his plan to re-open three city ERs, a claim Eyolfson denied.

She managed to lay out her party’s affordability measures, Manitoba’s economic growth and its potential with a PC government remaining at the helm. “Our stable experienced team has made so much progress — let’s keep the momentum going.”

She had Kinew on the ropes when she did address him directly, hammering him on all the crime measures he voted against — that he was left to explain were part of omnibus bills and that it was PC health care cuts that he voted against.

Surprisingly, she brought up the divisive issue of a landfill search for the remains of murder victims — something her government has refused to do and that has divided Manitobans, outraged Indigenous communities and incited protests across Canada. She asked Kinew to explain why he’d search the landfill when there are associated health risks to workers, an estimated cost of $184 million and no guarantees.

Kinew said Manitoba has to “live up to that phrase ‘every child matters’ and that the NDP won’t use wedge politics to score a few political points.”

Best sound bite:

When Stefanson went after Kinew’s talk about fighting crime and the NDP failing to support her government’s crime measures: “You talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk.”

Post-debate spin:

After the debate, Stefanson said she directed her questions for Kinew to Lamont to give the Liberal leader a chance to show what he stands for.

She said she raised the landfill issue because she thinks Kinew needs to be more transparent on where he stands on it.

“I was expecting to hear how he’s going to move forward with it — where he’s going to find the money and if he’s going to put lives at risk.”

She was asked about who she was referring to when she said she owned up to and apologized for comments made during question period after the death of Krystal Mousseau while others have not said sorry for their wrongdoings.

She said she was referring to Kinew’s failure to own up to his mistakes — such as claiming Dr. Eyolfson endorsed his ER plan.

Wab Kinew

What he needed to do:

Get more Manitobans to know him and give his main rival ample opportunity to mess up.

“What we know is that the more people see him, the more they like him,” said Emily Coutts, campaign political director. “And so this debate is a chance for him to talk to more people in their living rooms, on their phones, when they’re making their kids’ supper. And so that’s what we need to do.”

Kinew’s favourability rating among Manitobans has increased, with 51 per cent viewing him favourably in the latest Free Press-CTV Probe poll (32 per cent view Stefanson favourably), up from 38 per cent in June.

“We’re gonna talk to the voters and we’re gonna talk to them about the issues that matter to them, about health care, about lowering costs, about good jobs and a plan for the province,” Coutts said. He doesn’t need to go negative or be confrontational.

“We know that in this debate, just like in the campaign, the opposition’s job is to disqualify the government, and sometimes the government is the greatest help in making that happen.”

What he accomplished:

The NDP leader deflected many of his opponents’ attacks with ease and instead pivoted to scripted remarks outlining the party’s plans to improve health care, lower the cost of living and address public safety concerns.

Kinew’s greatest score likely came when he challenged Stefanson on the Tory government’s reorganization of the health-care system and its impacts during the COVID-19 pandemic.

He singled out the premier’s choice to praise her son’s hockey team in question period instead of answering a question about the failed airlift and subsequent death of 31-year-old patient Krystal Mousseau in May 2021, when the province’s critical care beds were over capacity.

Stefanson apologized for the misstep and said staffing is at the core of the health-care system’s challenges.

“What you just heard there was an admission that (Mousseau) deserved better health care, but what you did not hear was a commitment to provide better health care from the PCs,” Kinew said. “So many of us in this province know somebody where we’re still asking those ‘what if’ questions. What if health care had been better?”

Best sound bite:

Kinew hollowed out the premier’s promises to make “life more affordable for Manitobans” and claims the Tories are the only party ready to help the average worker take home bigger paycheques.

“Well there’s thousands of Manitobans on a picket line right now because you won’t help them get a bigger paycheque,” he said, referring to striking Manitoba Public Insurance employees.

Post-debate spin:

After the debate, Kinew dismissed criticism from both Stefanson and Lamont, who charged the NDP leader deliberately attempted to mislead Manitobans when he said local emergency room doctor Doug Eyolfson backed his plan to reopen three new emergency rooms.

Kinew made the statement during a radio debate on Monday which was later disputed by Eyolfson, who called it a misunderstanding. When asked on Thursday, Kinew would not call his remark a mistake.

“What Dr. Eyolfson actually said is closing the emergency rooms was a big mistake. I agree with him. I think it was really interesting to hear the other leaders dance around the issue of whether we should have more emergency rooms. We’ve been very clear on that.”

Dougald Lamont

What he needed to do:

Perform as well as he has in past debates, and show a larger audience that he’s well spoken, well informed and that Manitoba Liberals are “a great place to park their vote,” said campaign manager Eric Stewart.

The NDP have been trying to peel away Liberal votes, saying that the only way to change government is to avoid splitting the vote by casting a ballot for the NDP.

Lamont has to convince voters that his party has an important role to play, and is the only one they can trust to hold government to account, Stewart said.

“It’s about Dougald standing up there looking more credible than the other candidates, saying things that actually mean something — that he can speak about what matters to Manitobans,” said Stewart.

While more Manitobans approve of Lamont’s leadership than Heather Stefanson’s, according to the latest Free Press-CTV Probe Research poll, he needs to sell his team more than himself.

“He needs to show that more Manitoba Liberals in the legislature is better for Manitobans.”

What he accomplished:

At nearly every opportunity, Lamont attempted to cast doubt on his opponents’ credibility and bring into question the sincerity and feasibility of their promises.

On the NDP’s commitment to open three emergency rooms in Winnipeg, he called the pledge misleading: “One of the things that’s really, really important to us is to be honest with Manitobans and not give people false hope. This is not a time for false hope and I think that’s what the NDP are doing,” Lamont said.

As the target of Stefanson’s questions — which always focused on Kinew — Lamont managed to simultaneously pan the NDP leader for abandoning progressive ideals while rehashing what he considers to be the PC government’s failings over the past seven years.

The Liberal leader’s biggest victory came while debating Stefanson’s decision not to search the Prairie Green Landfill for the remains of Marcedes Myran and Morgan Harris, two Indigenous women allegedly slain by a serial killer.

“We have a terrible problem with human trafficking in Manitoba, it’s hugely linked to missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls,” Lamont said.

“On the landfill, this should never have been a political issue at all. This should just be a straight-up police investigation.”

Best sound bite:

Lamont took aim at both Stefanson and Kinew for their promised tax breaks. He dug into Kinew for adopting the Progressive Conservative government’s fiscal framework.

“What you’re promising is cuts. It’s going to be very, very difficult to aim to balance that budget when you’re promising massive tax cuts and borrowing hundreds of millions of dollars a year to send to billionaires.”

Post-debate spin:

Lamont said most of the questions were directed at Kinew during the debate — not because he’s the front-runner in the election but because the NDP leader has a lot of explaining to do.

He said the NDP has adopted a lot of the PC platform with regard to massive spending, cutting taxes and supporting a ban on future pandemic lockdowns, for example. “They’re abandoning their entire base in order to win votes.”

Lamont said he felt that the debate managed to turn up the heat on the NDP and the PCs and expose their blemished records.

“The important thing to get the point across is that we’re a real choice and the other parties are not…

“We’re the only party that wants to change things.”

Carol Sanders
Legislature reporter

Carol Sanders is a reporter at the Free Press legislature bureau. The former general assignment reporter and copy editor joined the paper in 1997. Read more about Carol.

Every piece of reporting Carol produces is reviewed by an editing team before it is posted online or published in print — part of the Free Press‘s tradition, since 1872, of producing reliable independent journalism. Read more about Free Press’s history and mandate, and learn how our newsroom operates.